The Mysterious Mr. (X) Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 8:00 pm

quote: And it puts a valiant sheen on the police, too: outpowered, but dedicated ... non-super "heroes" putting their lives on the line, against the odds, because it's all they can do. ... A rapid response team of high fire-power non-supers would be my first step. Agreed. But I see a group like this as part of the normal MPD, not a specialized extension like the SCD. The SCD sits about on the level of the National Guard, in my esteem - something that gets called in for extremely out of control situations. quote: But if they really go out of control, put a few high-calibre slugs into them from WAY beyond their visual range. In that last encounter that blew apart a portion of the city, a single police sniper firing from a hidden position could have probably resolved it. Logically, yes. But in terms of storyline, not very interesting, nor very useful as a game mechanic. How many Players would sit back and agree to have a sniper take one of their characters' heads off? I'd say few, if any. Calling in an Apache gunship is less practical than calling in a police-paid Superteam, because it isn't likely that a villain's Player is going to allow a helicopter to blast his character from three clicks away. quote: If the SCD is a buncha superheroes who can foil villains ... why would any independent heroes bother to live in Prodigy? Logically, there's no reason. But that is why some suspension of disbelief is necessary. I wish Ghostkid was still around - he ran the original SCD with Roland Brock. I never ran across them, so I don't know how they were played or what their real purpose was. Perhaps the two-tier suggestion I put forward needs another additional level of distinction. Perhaps the superpowered set I've created operates on the federal level, like the FBI or Marvel's SHIELD organization. Maybe they have to be called in from out of state for emergencies, with the sub-super SCD deals with the supercrimes that don't start levelling city blocks?

Sword Saint (Kensei) Friday, December 15, 2006 - 3:34 am

From a story perspective an invincible group of supers is no more useful than blasting people from the distance. But the idea of them being Feds is ok. Of course the US will have a super team in the background, but they don't get called in until the •••• really hits the fan.

The Mysterious Mr. (X) Friday, December 15, 2006 - 3:51 am

Invincible was never part of the plan. Overpowered, sure, but not invincible. But anyway - comparing this group to a bullet is innacurate. A bullet is final. Boom, done. A team of superhumans isn't like that. They can show up and try to negotiate. If that fails they can demand surrender. If that fails they might smack a character around a bit - but the character will have ample opportunity to get back up and fight on, to retreat and regroup, or to devise a clever strategy. A bullet only gives a handful of options - miss, hit with superficial wound, hit with serious wound, hit with death. High-powered chaingun fire leaves only the latter two, with the greatest possibility being the last option. A supergroup - even an invincible one, which this was never meant to be - will rarely bring serious inury or character death to the table. They will present a good chance of defeat perhaps, and capture, but that in and of itself is a roleplaying opportunity. A lot of great RP has been done in the Holding Cells of Prodigy's police stations. And the supergroup leaves open the possibility that the villain won't be captured at all - he just has to rely on more than his powers to get through things. He has to show some intuition and think on his feet. Dodging a bullet doesn't require any thinking at all. The point of this group isn't to make it impossible for a villain to succeed. They just won't be able to win in three posts or less. They shouldn't be able to - that cheats the Players and the Readers of a lot of really interesting storytelling.

The Mysterious Mr. (X) Friday, December 15, 2006 - 3:56 am

Here's another half-random thought: Maybe instead of a super-powered SCD element, the Police Department could have some sort of liscenced vigilantism program: superheroes who want to operate within the limits of the law take an oath and, for a relatively small fee, get issued a temporary permit for fighting villainy. At the scene of a major crime, they have to present their liscence to the ranking police officer before they can act - otherwise, they face the threat of prosecution.

Sword Saint (Kensei) Friday, December 15, 2006 - 4:05 am

Well, if you want to fight them head on then they are pretty much invincible. I'll admit I'm still arguing my case here. If Kensei ever meets them he'll either be allowed to walk away, or be carried away in a black bag. It wouldn't be a bad end, but I'll have to demand a few bodybags on the opposing side, too.

Megahertz (Megahertz) Saturday, December 16, 2006 - 10:41 am

I would think the SCD are just another type of law enforcement with a specific function to control and investigate crimes perpetrated by superhumans. To that end they probably have a few super in their ranks as well as some high-tech gizmos, and conventional heavy arms. Their primary purpose as a game mechanism should be to keep players in line when they do not realistically use law enforcement in their stories. Kensei can't simply walk down the street cutting off heads without consequence or opposition (not that he would of course - he's a better player than that). So really the SCD serve as IC enforcers of the games rules and keep disruptive players in check. In this capacity, the SCD should be invincible. A very disruptive player should be able to be dealt with swiftly - restrained by a super's force field, hit by a laser cannon, or cut down by a sniper's .50cal rifle. The SCD can also serve as a backdrop to the game. Perhaps I can play a super-cop. Perhaps the SCD deputize supers and my league or character can enjoy some liberties. To answer Toff's question - why would you need anyone but the SCD??? Well, like all law enforcement, their budgets and resources are tapped. They can't be everywhere all the time. I might also have my own motivations... perhaps I'm a vigilantly, I don't want to accept a reward, I don't want to cut my hair, lots of reasons out there. I admire any player noble enough to try to run this organization. It seems that it could get very complicated if there were a lot of players needing a reality check. I should hope a moderator would help out and would also use this organization. I would also hope that I could run SCD like the police in my own stories also as NPC's now and again. ... IC post delayed as I am doing some background work.

Dimb (Unregistered Guest) Saturday, December 16, 2006 - 12:39 pm

quote: I wish Ghostkid was still around - he ran the original SCD with Roland Brock. I never ran across them, so I don't know how they were played or what their real purpose was. Nah, Brock was the original super powered cop way before the firdt SCD. I believe it was actually set up by Dave (alternate_dave, not Illusion) who served as the game's "police chief" and by then Brock had mostly stopped playing for college (as if fossils are more interesting than superheroes). I think he played as a PC in the team briefly and then he allowed his character to stay on as an NPC and different people played it. I seem to recall former moderator Rebel did a lot with the team at some point, and another player was doing Brock as an NPC. There was a philosophy at one point that the game's police should be played by a moderator in the same way as, say, the town guards in one of the Worlde Arcane cities. The idea was that that way the police would be better represented than the usual "villain calls cops easily and walks off", which was an issue at one point. Anyway, carry on, just feeding in.... I might even be mis-remembering.

The Mysterious Mr. (X) Saturday, December 16, 2006 - 8:16 pm

Megahertz - You've expanded my own idea better then I could. I admit I hadn't thought about using them for rules enforcement - but that's probably the best use for this kind of resource. Dimb - I suppose I just assumed that GK had a hand in the SCD, since Roland was his. I'll defer to your knowledge of history.

Ghost Kid! (Unregistered Guest) Saturday, December 16, 2006 - 9:03 pm

Heya, from the Paleontology lab at UB! I'm Dave, also known as Ghost Kid (GK). I also played Lt. Roland Brock, the hardened speech-impaired superhuman-hating cop. Yeah, college eats up my time, as does fine women and good beer. Mark was nice enough to point me in this direction, so I decided to clarify the SCD's history and original purpose. The SCD was alternate_dave's idea and the original Mayor's. At the time, there were a bunch of villains and nebulous non-heroic neutrals, and much of the city was getting trashed. Cops and civillians would die by the hundreds. I prefer narrative over realism (story over "what-would-really-happen") but it was all getting hard to believe. Alternate_dave thought up a non-superpowered team at first, but had to back out of running it (can't remember why). I took over, seeing as I'd been running Brock for a while. Brock wasn't really super-powered, he had an aura that could neutralize supernatural and superhuman powers, something he was only half-aware of. He also hadn't been the first superhero cop, there'd been two others before him who'd vanished. Anyway, so Brock took over as Captain of the SCD, and I thought up a few semi-powered NPCs (stuff like "ability to see the past" and "really good pilot/driver" and, of course, "Japanese combat cyborg babe") to act as sidekicks. I wasn't really a mod, I was just given authority to control a team of NPCs for the good of the city. It lasted most of the summer of 2003. It's hard finding what the SCD's place is, though (it had been difficult back when Roland was just my PC). Villains don't want to be caught, cause that messes with their player's story idea. But it was kind of frustrating for me to constantly play the ineffective cop, even with superpowers. The real root of the problem probably has to do with conflicting agendas in a freeform online RPG. Compromise is important, but it's always hard to find any satisfaction if two people want opposite things. I stepped over the bounds of my game authority several times, which I feel sorry for, but I don't see how anyone in the same situation can avoid it. Anyway, college interceded soon, and I drifted away from freeform, and the SCD was sent into limbo. I guess Brock got used later, something I don't think I've heard before. Doesn't really bother me, though, and if you guys want to use him, that's fine. I'm off to grad school soon for geology, and it's good to see some of you are still playing! Cya! -Dave / Ghost Kid PS: Hey, do I know you Dimb?

Dimb (Unregistered Guest) Saturday, December 16, 2006 - 9:20 pm

quote: something I don't think I've heard before. Really? Sorry, My mistake! From the people playing him as an NPC and the rules on character ownership I must've assumed you'd given permission and now remembered it as if you had. Long time ago, I guess. What was it with this game and Daves? Daves all over at one point...

töff (Töff) Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 2:33 am

Floating another idea ... what if the SCD writeup had prewritten portable generic units that could be played by any party, so that the players could proceed without worrying whether whoever runs the SCD was going to come along and post? Don't the police work that way already, as part of the rules? The prewritten units could be (just off the hip, here) something like: Squad Commander (police lieutenant) Special Weapons Leader (police sergeant) Special Weapons Team = 5 special ops policement Tactical & communications = 1 policeman Crowd control & rescue = 10-25 policemen Super Adjunct (if available) = 1 NPC super >> Special Weapons = bazookas, sonic guns, xray lasers (heat beams), foam bombs (immobilize & capture) >> Vehicles = 1 helicopter, 1 command van, 1 ambulance (w/2 EMT's), 3 streetbikes, extra police cruisers on call This is just a basic prewritten unit that newbies and experienced players alike could "plug in" to any scene if needed ... no muss no fuss, no misunderstandings about what the SCD might be at any given time. Of course, this does not limit the SCD as a whole. It's just an idea to help parties get some nice SCD action without waiting for a mod ... but, the SCD unit, if it's prewritten, is already what the mods approve!

Sword Saint (Kensei) Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 9:11 am

I have two comments: X, teaching errant players manners by beating up their characters doesn't usually work. It'll only leave them angry at what happened, and they might even leave the game over it - which is counter productive. Töff: While I find your idea good, it will still come down to the fact that some people don't like to incorporate the legal response to their actions into their stories. Giving them pre-written character archetypes for law enforcement won't change that at all. The fundamental question I would like to ask is this: Do we WANT a city with a strong law enforcement, or don't we? Normally cops don't play a big role in superhero stories, but I understand what happened in the past, that the city got trashed on a regular basis, is also not right. Character actions are based on a certain expectation. If the world around them is full of strong police, then stories with furtive action will dominate, while an environment with a weak police will facilitate non-clandestine criminal activity. In the interest of continuity (which I personally value quite highly, while I understand some other people couldn't care less), any change in the way the game works should be a gradual change in the game world. Any new police units should be formed and enter the world as something new. They should face problems because of being new, too. Logistical problems for instance. A case of flashbangs not delivered correctly, maintenance problems of their new and experimental equipment, etc. And they should work within the balance of the game, i.e. every character on the force that has superpowers should have weaknesses, too. By operating in a team they will be strong enough anyway. (Why is this important: The characters of this game are supposed to be at the top of the foodchain, the creme de la creme where abilities are concerned. If there were supers within the SCD without any weaknesses, then that would ruin that idea, and the game balance in general.) Even better: The new SCD should be recruited from existing characters, with only the commander being played by a mod. Recruitment should take place in game, in character. That way we increase the amount of interactive, immersive storylines, and we also possibly solve a moral dilemma, that of the vigilante hero. Deployment of the force works by realistic means. A call comes in, the commander gathers his unit, briefs the characters based on the knowledge he has himself, and then the unit deploys. If anyone messes up, they mess up. Anyone doesn't show, they are not there. The law enforcement will be as good as its players. If teamplay doesn't work, it doesn't work, the SCD will be weak. But if everything works out, there will be heroes doing a good job in the employ of the city. That unit will be made up of diverse characters, will feature conflicting opinions and strategies, and will also possibly be burdened by less than perfect loyalty of the members. But it will be, by all accounts, the realistic way of doing things. Can anyone see any downsides to this?

Victus Odium Contemno (Dark_phoenix) Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 12:50 pm

Ummm.......no ;D

töff (Töff) Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 2:53 pm

quote: some people don't like to incorporate the legal response to their actions into their stories Never meant to imply that they necessarily should. Just trying to make it easy for them IF they want to, sans moderator.

VDP Financial President (Gabriel) Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 9:01 pm

I'm currently on vacation so my posting opportunities will be cut down quite a bit. I'm still thinking of a number of things I hope you'll all find interesting when I unveil them.

Megahertz (Megahertz) Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 8:58 am

quote: 2.05 -- LAW ENFORCEMENT: The police of the city are not incompetent, they will respond to public acts of villainy ... and regular law breaking -- with a speedy response. You are permitted ... and expected -- to NPC the police force. These are the cities finest and with super-villains a fact of life they are trained and increasingly, equipped, accordingly, please NPC them accurately. You may defeat a handful or more, but eventually you will be caught or shot in the process. The change in the game is the loss of law enforcement in play not its addition. As I see it, you don't have any choice with respect to realistic involvement of law enforcement. Public acts of villainy are met with speedy action from a competent, professional police force who will eventually succeed - per the above. That seem rather involved to me. If you don't want the SCD or the police to get involved in your story, then follow the rules and post realistic consequences for your actions. If you don't then you now run the risk that someone else will. At the same time, one should not use the fact that another player is running the SCD as a crutch. Rule 2.05 sticks and you should NPC the police and SCD as appropriate or ask the player running the SCD if you want another PC involved to be fair to them. As for getting upset over IC retribution for violating rules... well OOC rants can be just as obnoxious and ineffective. IC responses at least keep the game realistic enough for other players to respond reasonably.

Megahertz (Megahertz) Friday, December 22, 2006 - 9:08 am

quote: OOC rants can be just as obnoxious and ineffective Ha-ha-ha! Sorry my last post was not very nice and fell into the obnoxious rant category. I was feeling grumpy. Ignore my last post above.

guest super (Guest) Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 5:53 pm

Dumb Question Time: Is Squirrel Girl ever likely to be defeated in our lifetimes? I say no, but... you? ~Dimb

guest super (Guest) Saturday, May 5, 2007 - 6:30 pm

Would anyone like to read Coastal City, an online short story by author Kim Newman, which amusingly looks at "how shifting continuities in comics universes affect the people in them, from their point of view"? It possesses a whimsical golden age yearning. Dimb

The Tin Angel (Hatchetfeather) Friday, May 11, 2007 - 9:05 am

Quiet on the boards as of late! That is a terrific link Dimb - thanks man. What a unique perspective for the author to have taken. It would be interesting to hear Newman's thoughts on the cause for the change - shifting demographics, a society more desensitized to violence, a decrease in global violence, increased vulgarity...

guest super (Guest) Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 3:11 pm

I can't believe DC Comics killed off Tara agin. What's up with editorial over there these days?

guest super (Guest) Sunday, July 22, 2007 - 10:03 am

CyberNation - whatever happened? I see it's still there - http://cybernation.mysteryandmagic.com/ - but not linked on the front www.mysteryandmagic.com page? I had a character there briefly back in the day, although I tended to have more fun reading other people's stories than writing my own. ~Dimb

töff (Töff) Sunday, July 22, 2007 - 1:52 pm

CyberNation has had no RP characters for about two years, so it was removed from the M&M homepage, in the hopes that new members finding us that way would not choose that world to apply to for RP. CyberNation does, however, remain a storyworld in Wayfarer, with the serial comic "Storm Crows" and the serial CCG "Storm Crows: Ultimatum." The comic will soon conclude, but concepts for a sequel are germinating. CyberNation art & fiction might continue to appear, also. Wayfarer Number Seventeen was devoted entirely to CyberNation (and a heck of an issue it was, too!).

guest super (Guest) Monday, July 23, 2007 - 4:52 pm

Awesome! CyberNation's legacy lives on. ...and also, that's an Awesome timeline. I'd forgotten some of those old games. Lucidity was so far out there, had a brilliant design. I briefly played a Furry on Galdra Baen, probably still got the bio somewhere. Was just about to apply on Folsom when it disappeared too. Just remembered a brilliant little subgame run under CyberNation briefly where you had to have an existing M&M character to play, and it basically created a copy of your existing character in that world. I guess with all the subgames over the years it'd be hard to cover them all (what with players moving on and all, and not recalling the names!). Ahh nostalgia. Not what it used to be. Dimb

Administration (Admin) Monday, December 17, 2007 - 4:31 pm

Ignore - email test

Daniel Hammer, aka (Hammerspace) Friday, October 17, 2008 - 12:11 pm

This seems to be the appropriate thread to post this. I've seen people in various parts of the forum referring to plotlines as "SL"... so, pardon me for asking the newb question, but what do the S and L stand for?

Anonymous Friday, October 17, 2008 - 12:31 pm

Story and Line.

Daniel Hammer, aka (Hammerspace) Friday, October 17, 2008 - 12:34 pm

Ahh, of course. Thank you.

Anonymous Friday, October 17, 2008 - 1:02 pm

No problem.

A Viscious Visionary, the (Director) Saturday, June 27, 2009 - 4:05 pm

This seemed like a reasonable place to post these minor questions before I get started. 1. In my app I wrote that my PC programmed the art-house screen of the Megaplex. I realize now I should have written Multiplex. Can I go ahead with the Theater that is already there or should I create a new one? Do other players mind? 2. I had an idea that instead of a single avatar (since I can neither find nor create one that I like) I would use a real director's photo and change it out every so often. (Thats Sydney Lumet over there) Its gimmicky sure, but I wonder would it be too distracting to other characters? I'd be willing to rewrite a super beefy description in my profile. By the way, sorry I never got back to Toff and Wayne about the rule 1 problems in the original app. Just kind of forgot about it, I guess. I've made all the agreed upon changes and an OOC comment in the profile

töff (Töff) Saturday, June 27, 2009 - 4:18 pm

quote: I had an idea that instead of a single avatar (since I can neither find nor create one that I like) I would use a real director's photo and change it out every so often. To my dissatisfaction, the software will change all instances of your avatar when you change it on your profile. It's not as if your previous posts retain the previous avatars. Unfortunately, I don't have any way to change the situation.

A Viscious Visionary, the (Director) Saturday, June 27, 2009 - 4:45 pm

You act as if I were bright enough even to have anticipated that issue at all. Just out of curiosity do you think it would be disruptive to immersive play? If I should decide to do it any way (not too often) would it create a problem with page loading times or whatever?

töff (Töff) Saturday, June 27, 2009 - 4:52 pm

It wouldn't bother me. And no, it wouldn't affect page loads. And you woulda figured it out real quick

A Viscious Visionary, the (Director) Saturday, June 27, 2009 - 10:27 pm

OK one more dumb one. Is there some trick to getting profile changes to stick. I know how to spell vicious, really (check out the tag under syd's pic). But no matter how many times I delete that extra s and save it puts itself right back on reload.

Administration (Admin) Saturday, June 27, 2009 - 10:58 pm

Maybe you didn't click the "save changes" button?

A Vicious Visionary, the (Director) Sunday, June 28, 2009 - 5:43 am

I got it I think but it was a weirdish fix. A page came up telling me to report this error- 1246181109-29567 to admin. But it seems ok now. Note that, unlike the avatar, it does not change in all your previous posts. Shh be quiet and you can hear God laughing at me. anyway thanks for all the help

töff (Töff) Sunday, June 28, 2009 - 11:53 am

quote: report this error- 1246181109-29567 to admin Trippy, never seen any kind of code like that from Discus anywhere. Can you recreate it and send me a screenshot? quote: Note that, unlike the avatar, it does not change in all your previous posts. Yeh, and my brain has been pounding at the gates of that fact, hoping to find a way to hackmod Discus to retain previous avatars on previous posts. Also, in Worlde Arcane, we have "badges" (little icons that go on a user's byline to show his guild affiliations) that I want to do the same thing with. btw, If anybody here didn't know it ... Discus seems to have ceased operations as a company So we are now technically operating on obsolete software. Don't worry -- it'll run fine for the foreseeable future! But yeh, it's sad to see the concern go under.

A Vicious Visionary, the (Director) Sunday, June 28, 2009 - 1:21 pm

I suspect the problem had more to do with my browser then the Discus. Switched over to Mozilla and a few graphical probs I had solved themselves. I saw that error once out of like 20 times and not since I switched browsers but if it pops up again I'll shoot you some. There is still some monkey business going down in my profile so its possible. For what its worth Got the 'Viscious' change to take by: 1 deleting the 's' and not saving 2 deleting the top field in the change password section and saving down there.

töff (Töff) Sunday, June 28, 2009 - 2:02 pm

For the record, all the "save changes" buttons are just copies of a single form-submit button. I guess they put all the copies so you don't have to scroll down to the bottom to save.